My Brother--On A Date

So as not to blog in her comments section, I'd like to expound on the comment I made yesterday.

Well, also being in the DC area, I read this not thinking that it’s a cost issue. There are SEVERAL great spots in the area that are the same price point as TGIF, etc. It’s just lazy to not make the effort to go on OpenTable.com and find one…Or at least that’s the way I read the post. I really believe our ‘acceptable’ for the DC area is a lot different in other places. This goes for men and women. But really, it really is about effort. Treat me the same way you’d expect a man to treat your sisters, nieces, daughters, etc. My logic is that if a man doesn’t think I’m as good as his kin, then he probably thinks way too little of me.

Also, I think these men will meet women who will just be so thankful to have a date, they’ll actually be OK with dutch. You just aren’t one of those women. Also, it could be that chain spots are how these men roll on a daily basis. But if you find men who are typically outside of the chain circuit, they are more likely to automatically take you somewhere you’ll find appropriate.

As is often stated on these innanets, a woman's (and man's), preference has a lot to do with whether she remains single or gets married.  It's said that women are single because they have preferences.  I think the same could be said about married women.  Their preference is why they are married to the men they are married to.  IT IS NOT A LACK OF PREFERENCE THAT GETS YOU MARRIED OR KEEPS YOU SINGLE.  The men who roll with chain restaurants out the gate end up with women who are cool with it (or should).  See?  It all works out.

BUT...

There's a fine line between giving a man a chance and realizing early on that, at the most basic level, you aren't matching.  I think this is the place where the interpretation of the post went in two different directions.  I interpreted the writer as speaking about effort and using restaurants as one example. I would think this would be the same as the men who don't like women to show up with a pony-tail on the first date.  Or the time I couldn't date a man because he didn't read.  HE.  DID.  NOT.  READ.  Y'all!  How'd he get his news?  What news? He got his news from WPGC (urban radio).  *Jesus wept*

Some took that to mean she was passing over perfectly good men because of their first date planning skills. Trust, me, I know this happens.  But I also know that women often over-look things only to end up later accepting what they felt from day one--they aren't a good social/financial/etc. match.  AND, remember, I'm in DC so if she's passing them up, more men for me.  What?  I'm still nubile! (Gives AMES, of 'Borderline Barren' fame, a hard side-eye).

After going back and reading the remaining comments and other stuff inspired by the original post, I was at a complete loss for how some readers took what some of the engaged/married women were saying as them standing on some high horse.  It may be because I've been reading comments from TIH and to a lesser extent Pserendipity for years and never got that 'vibe' from them.  Everyone was speaking from their perspective.  (Y'all I had to keep going back to your posts cus I kept copying the links and forgetting to insert them.  I promise I wasn't stalking y'all.)

There was this guy SD.  I really liked him.  He would never plan dates beyond the first one.  He would ask me out, we'd have a slamming time.  He was OK with 'fancy' or carry out from The Muffin Man.  He'd go anywhere I wanted, gladly pay, etc. but it was all about where I chose.  I think the difference between him and the guys the writer was talking about was that those men ONLY go to chains.  They aren't trying to see what else is out there.  There's some really cool stuff in and around DC.  BTW, anyone going to that Green Book play?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Tickets are $15-25!  Oh word?  Nobody, huh?  Y'all ain't worth nuthin'!

There are other men who I didn't date again after the initial effortless first dates.  The difference between SD and them is that I liked SD enough that I was willing to give US the opportunity to make our dates about our interaction, not our setting.  I think we would do good to take men on a case-by-case basis while keeping basic parameters in mind.  Is he respectful, responsible, ambitious?  Can he read?  Does he care about my well-being (physically and emotionally)? 

Completely unrelated:  Has Epiphany officially surpassed Destiny as the given stripper name du jour?

NOTE:  I think this actually boils down to a man showing effort in a way that a woman is willing to receive it.  She takes effort as going beyond the first parking lot he sees after he picker her up or leaves his house.  Some women recognize effort at the level of the man paying.  Other women recognize effort as the man calling to confirm before the date.  It's not up to me to tell anyone what will work for them.  Then again, there's THIS.

Comments

[Tiffany In Houston]

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from. I have dealt with plenty of lazy men and been on some horrible dates. And I didn't go out with them again. And I certainly don't advocate any woman being asked out on date and then being told she needs to pay her share. That does not compute where I'm from. But I just was saying sometimes men are just inexperienced or used to dealing with a different caliber of woman. Once you let it be known how you roll, they can choose to get with your program or keep it moving.

And you can stalk all you want. I've been stalking you for years..:)

[Ames]

I don't believe anyone cared if she was passing good men over. I think people
personalized it and felt she bashed their men who eat at chains.

She is old enough to have learned the characteristics of men who should be avoided.

We avoid chains and we have a married couple we dine out with
and they also avoid chains. I really think people
who live in cities have this preference.

Her preference is realistic.

[Ms. Smart]

"Once you let it be known how you roll, they can choose to get with your program or keep it moving."

But doesn't this assume men over 30, who live in and around DC are so dense they don't know who they are approaching? Like they can't tell the type? Or are they just trying to do the LEAST?

Or (it occurred to me, at negative o'clock in the morning), that women who think men should read them as NOT the chain type of women may be giving off that very chain vibe. The logic being that men dating certain women aren't competing with the type of men who do anything outside of chains. Therefore, chains are good enough.

Or, it's not at all about the woman but about what the man is used to. Wait, didn't I say that in my post. Hell, I need to go to bed.

[Ms. Smart]

"I really think people who live in cities have this preference."

But this preference would be because we have the option. Also, I work in the burbs and I can count on my fingers the times we've gone to lunch of early dinner at chain spots. We've got all sorts of food and activities to choose from and we are smack dab in the middle of the burbs.

Even if I lived in York, PA, I know there are unique spots there that are creative and interesting. If not, they aren't very far from Baltimore--which, on the low-low, has a decent amount of nice places. Granted, you may be the only one of US there, but they are nice, creative, etc.

[Ms. Smart]

"I think people personalized it and felt she bashed their men who eat at chains."

Yeah I could see how, if personalized, this could be seen as an insult. But...So what if these men are closed minded. And so what if Obama is Muslim--which he isn't but so what if he was. Ya know, I don't see there's anything foundational-ly wrong with men who are closed minded because they can just find a closed minded woman to be with. They are likely to probably be happy with who and what they get and won't be out trying new things and changing too much from being the man they were when they were married...And I'm not willing to say that's a bad thing. It may not be ideal for me, but bad? Naw. Hell, they might be MORE stable.

[WuDaMan]

Oh shite why you wanna take away the hate & turn me onto your side with a case study... Cuz this is sounding like some of what I had to say last week. One of these days bang zoom blood on the dance floor... Lol I ain't got much in the ways of h8. *looking for a nemesis 12 step program*

[sherri]

You guys are funny.

There is nothing wrong with a chain restaurant. It isn't a sign/warning of anything and certainly doesn't meant the patron is closed minded or dull.

PF Chang - chain. Crustacean's - chain. Ruth's Chris - chain. Sizzler - chain.

Don't bouge yourself out of the market people. It isn't that hard.

[Ted]

The thing that stuck with me about the referenced entry is that the author placed a premium on CREATIVITY. If that is a characteristic SHE wants in her man, suggesting Applebee's falls far, far short. It isn't about the chain restaurant, it's about the amount of thought put into planning the date. Applebee’s takes zero.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I will go to a chain restaurant in a New York minute. Red Lobster and Olive Garden have the bomb bread and an Outback steak suits my taste just fine.

That said, there is nothing creative AT ALL about suggesting such places. And when an adventurous mind is what is most appealing to someone, I can completely see how suggesting a chain restaurant would be an indicator that the asking party isn't very creative. Again, an INDICATOR, not an absolute determining factor of creativity. When you only get one chance to make a first impression, and your first impression becomes synonymous with TGI Friday's, then the person seeking a creative mind will be turned off by the suggestion. Not that TGIF is horrible (because it ain't), but it certainly isn't creative.

I see everyone's points and the logic in all of them. As someone said, some folks can "bouge themselves off the market" very quickly by adamantly refusing to ever eat anywhere non-fancy simply because it’s a chain. I agree completely. But I also agree with the author that if you value a creative, thoughtful mind, jalapeno poppers at Chili's is a major fail.

[Tiffany In Houston]

To your point about doing the least..I think any man will do the least..if you let him. I don't think DC men or Houston men or Detroit men are dense at all. I do think that they will do what the woman will allow. It's all about standards.

[Honest]

I need to go and read the post you're referencing.

Overall I can see where going to a chain on a first date would be disappointing if chains aren't your thing. Wouldn't a man who is serious or at least is interested in getting to know a woman obtain a few hints as to what she likes or the types of places she likes to go to before setting up the first date?

This is also DC and there are plenty of restaurants here to choose from that cost about the same as a lower end chain restaurant.

[Tiffany In Houston]

Sherri has a point. Oceanaire can run you over $50 a plate, but it's still a chain restaurant! LOL!!

[Ms. Smart]

Cus you know even behind the nemesis game, it's all love, Wu!

[Ms. Smart]

I am not sure she, the writer, not the commenters (or I) said anything was wrong with them.  she made a connection based on her experience.  Also, I just did a quick google search and there are more non-chain spots in DC proper than there are chains (assuming Yum's Carry out is taken out of the mix).  Her issue seemed to be that FIRST date chains indicated a lack of effort which, in her experience translated to a limited level of creativity.  Maybe she would have done better to say that she can't deal with a dude who has never left PG county. 

[mrcrazyone]

I think first dates should simply be about getting to know each other. Some men have a “creative” go to first date just like some women have a “good” first meal they cook. Practice makes perfect. Hell I could take every first date to a nice spot in the river market, go walk the big dam bridge and then break out some wine and cheesecake or fresh fruit depending on the season. Doesn’t make me creative at all.

[Ms. Smart]

Maybe folks took it too personally.  If your guy/lady only does chains AND/OR thinks those are cool, that's great.  The writer's observations shouldn't be taken as this woman calling you and/or your guy wack.  Folks temperature stays set on TENDER for no reason.  Everything that's said and every observation that's made isn't about you (not you per se Ted cus we know everything's about you).

[Ms. Smart]

"
This is also DC and there are plenty of restaurants here to choose from
that cost about the same as a lower end chain restaurant."

Right.  This is the point I was trying to make.  It's not like all we have are apostrophe 's' spots.  We actually have less of them than we do unique spots.

[Ms. Smart]

This isn't about cost.  As stated in my comment, the unique spots are at the same price point as TGIF.  Further, there are THREE or more unique spots for every chain we have in DC proper. 

[Ms. Smart]

We agree.  I think men will do what they think they have to.  Some men base their 'have to' on what the woman smells like, where she lives, what car she drives, or the amount of competition he believes he has to get her time. 

[Ms. Smart]

EXACTLY!!!  I had a paragraph about this but erased it cus the post was just too damned long.  I think though, it's about how the woman feels (receives) the date.  You can do the same thing for five women and four of them think it's unique cus it's like a new used car--new to them.  Then there's the piece about it being both people's responsibility to make the dates less about WHERE they are and more about who they are with.  For some women, WHERE they go ties directly into how they believe the man feels about them and their time.  Other women don't feel this way.  Bottom line, I'm not knocking anyone's preference and see the perspectives of all the logical ones presented. 

[onefromphilly]

Some of the biggest PLAYER/DOGS/CHEATERS I have ever know were the biggest spenders, the most gentleman like, the most well mannered, "scripted" people on the planet. They impressed a lot of woman on the first date. And a few dates were all that a lot of those women got.

A man with a good heart, soul and mind might come out of the gate a little crooked by suggesting a less than stellar resturant. (Folks in the DC area need to know that the Palm was at the TOP of DC Health Dept. sanitation violation's list)
It is by no means a total indication of his character. And that is all I think most of the women were trying to tell her.

[Ms. Smart]

And as I stated, I didn't get where she said anything about cost. She wasn't demanding dude drop $500 bills on dinner for two. The reality is that there are a whole LOT of spots in the same price point as TGIF. But I've been told there are a lot of places in America where going outside of the chain gang means a significant increase in price...and the Palm...chain?

Y'all know I loves my wine! Y'all know I loves my spicey 'eff-nic' food. I'm pleased as punch to go on a first date at a local spicey 'eff-nic' spot where the bill can be as little as $27 for two. But in order for a man to know that he has to either ASK or enjoy those things OR be willing to try them if I suggest. Then again, I'm open to NOT having food be the main attraction of any date. Men are so surprised by this. I would be happy with a day of museum touring--which I did do on a first date last year. The way I read her blog entry, she wanted men who made the effort to think beyond the everyday-whatchu-do-with-your-homies-outting.

[ames]

Ms Ann can be found cooking in all of her restaurants. Why do you call it a chain? Were they bought out?

[onefromphilly]

"In my experience, men who frequent chain restaurants are unimaginative and uncultured, (again I am saying in my experience). I live in a major metropolitan area, if I lived in Podunk, Iowa I’m sure I would think differently, but I don’t."

It was her comment right here that summed it all up for me. I didn't comment on her blog and I based what I said here and on TIH and Pserendipity's blog on that.

[SoJo]

I don't have a dog in this fight and this is kinda one of the reasons that I stopped commenting on posts dealing with dating/relationships. I could care less what everyone else does on their first, second or post-nuptial dates. But here's where I think the conversation started to go left:

"If I meet a man and he suggests any restaurant like those I just mentioned I will instantly know he’s not the kind of man for me."

To some that may sound uppity. But it's her choice. My only thought was why not offer an alternative. Instantly thinking that you're destined for life at Applebee's based off of a suggestion is silly (to me).

As for you married and soon-to-be married ladies, it can also be a little irritating (just keeping it real) when y'all go on dating blogs and end your comments with "and I've been married for 15 years" or "and I'm getting married tomorrow".

You might as well close with "and that's why you boarderline barren broads (shout out to Ames lol) are all still single O_o" . It may not be your intent, but that's how it can be misconstrued. Although, summa y'all don't mince words and that's EXACTLY what you mean. LOL!

Hell, whatever. I don't like restaurants as dates period. But I go....sometimes. Other times, I suggest alternative activities. The RESPONSE that I receive from my suggestions lets me know whether or not the person is someone that I will continue seeing, but that's just me.

In either case, dammit, to each her own. Just as long as you're happy.

[onefromphilly]

and I just dropped the Palm in there because it is highly fancy smacy and would impress the panties off of some women. Yet it might also cause her to upchuck that $125 dinner. LOL

[Ms. Smart]

Eh, I didn't focus on the comments so much cus they went left. Still, her post, nor her comment mentioned cost. Oh and don't think it's lost that y'all locals ignored my question about the play.

[SoJo]

And another thing. Even though I don't like restaurants as dates, I make no bones about my LOVE for the alfredo sauce at Olive Garden. Shoot, if my man brings me take-out chicken fettucine for lunch from there, I'm swooning.

Besides...the commercial says that their chefs were trained by chefs that were trained by chefs that were trained by chefs in Tuscany. Hmph.

[ames]

Chains are newer and cities are older. Its harder to get the space and zoning clearance for a chain in cities. Burbs tend to give cheap and sometimes no cost 50 year leased land to malls/chain to build on.

If I want to get a kiwi lemonade from Applebees I have to drive 20 miles. I have to drive 10-15 miles for most every other chain. I can walk a few blocks and hit a bunch of smaller restaurants and talk to the actual owner.

[WuDaMan]

No it's not. I h8ed your guts. LMBO I can't... *ct(ph)u* No wonder my people smirk sideways when I revel in the idea that there was someone in my life that I can't stand. Cuz I got love for everybody. Yup not since I was a little kid have I had a fight like we did. I owe you a drank. You sure it wasn't a love to h8?

[Ted]

not you per se Ted cus we know everything's about you

It's taken you approximately six years, but you're finally caught on, my dear.

Seriously though, I agree. One person's preference is not necessarily an attack on someone else's. I don't think the writer was saying that chains suck, but that the sign they send to her when a new dude recommends one is aking to a bat signal for unoriginal. I'm with that line of thinking. I'll eat at Outback in a second, but I would NEVER take a DATE there. That's just me, and to each his own.

And folks who haven't used OpenTable are MISSING OUT. That site is informative, thoughtful, gives great ideas, and shows some forward thinking. What is negative about ANY of those things??? Nada.

[Ms. Smart]

You did a lot with this comment.  So much so that I had to log back in and comment from the 'puter instead of my phone.  I agree that this is about preference.  As stated in other comments, I see exactly where everyone is coming from.  But the idea that one person's way is better, eh, nerp.  Not getting behind that notion.

I don't have enough background on this woman to know is her entire dating history has been peppered with instances of close minded men who all started off with Bennigan's as their go to first date spot.  It might-could be.  Maybe she's tired of making suggesting.  I'ont know.  What I do know is that I've often felt (in my younger years) that when I made a suggestion to do anything other than what the man suggested, I was insulting him and/or he immediately took it as a sign of me trying to force him to spend more.  I'm older now so I'ont really care.  If I suggest some 'other' type stuff and his pish-poshes, so be it.  That's one thing I liked about Xedo.  His ass might not have been polished, wore an Ed Hardy hat in public, but he was down to be introduced to things and places he'd never considered before.  IF this has been her experience, I can see why she's hesitant to suggest anything.  But it's also just as likely that it's not been her experience.  

As for the married, I only feel the way you described when it's coming from people I don't 'know'.  Dating, married, baby making are all sensitive subjects.  While I don't think any of the married/engaged ladies initial wrote with the intent of throwing in anyone's face "That's why your ass is and will stay single," upon re-reading it, I can see how one who wasn't familiar with either would get that. And it's really not up to me to tell anyone else HOW they should interpret with TIH and Pserendipity wrote.  Analogy:  If I tap you, it's really not up to me to tell you whether or not what I considered a tap should hurt you.  You're the one on the receiving end so it's up to YOU to determine how my tap felt.  Uh, I'm rambling.  I blame the coffee.

[Ms. Smart]

Y'all see this?  I want everyone to see this mess right here.  I extend a cyber olive branch and this is what Wu does?!  This is why we can't rise as a people.

[Ms. Smart]

I think the bigger test would be to:

1) find men who are like the ones you want to date
2) ask them would they take a woman to chain, why or why not

All this going back and forth about what it may or may not mean, between women, is useless.  The people who should be in this conversation are men who are the TYPE she wants.  Cus for real, maybe she's not meeting the types of men she wants to meet.

Uh and your ass will go to Champ's in a NY minute too!

[Ted]

Three things:

First, there was not one #iBlameTed. See above. Everything is about me. LOL

Second, Olive Garden breadsticks are baked crack coated in salt and butter. And this is why I love them so.

Third, On your first comment, you went to church up in here and I love it!

[Ms. Smart]

Eff yo OG! I raise you a basket of that brown bread at Cheesecake Factory!

[Ms. Smart]

Great point.  When I'm in NYC, I'ont go to what's around the corner from the house.  No way I'm driving up to White Plains for shyt when I can walk to the end of the block.

[SoJo]

I think we're kinda saying the same thing. Nobody's way is better than anyone else's UNLESS you're unhappy in your situation. You're the only person that has to be w/ your mate when you're all said and done - whether you're simply on a date or married for years.

Dating, marriage and everything else in between is sensitive for everyone because its an important and personal area or our lives.

The married ladies comments don't bother me personally when they end with "and I'm married", but I whenever I read the dating stuff - that's where I always pinpoint the conversations going off-track. People easily catch feelings on both sides.

Maybe it's part some stuff hitting home and maybe part you don't know my life.

[Ms. Smart]

OR part: 'You'ont know whatchu talking 'bout' from either side? Eh, I'ont know. Got 4 hrs of sleep, running on caffeine, and prolly talking three shades of crazy.

[Ted]

Checkmate. You got me.

That brown bread?? With the oat bits?? When it's warm?? And with some butter spread on it?? Boooooyyyyyy

[mrcrazyone]

I am more of the mental rolodex mindset than the check please mindset. I think that was what the married and soon to be married women were trying to convey. Nothing wrong with taking note and digging deeper if that is something you have had trouble with in the past. I say go to the chain and tell him about this wonderful spot you enjoy going to and note his reaction. Creative and close minded are two very different things.
Crazy story, I went to New York for a short trip with a woman I was dating. The places she wanted us to eat led to our ultimate demise. Sorry but I did not come to NYC to eat Sbarro’s and Burger King. Two places she wanted to eat at.They was a little deli across from the hotel that had the best fresh made breakfast food.

[onefromphilly]

"Besides...the commercial says that their chefs were trained by chefs that were trained by chefs that were trained by chefs in Tuscany. Hmph."

ROFL

[sherri]

Here is why I disagree with you.

I will instantly know he’s not the kind of man for me

I’m all about making sacrifices but I’m not going to lower my standards just for the sake of having a free meal.

In my experience, men who frequent chain restaurants are unimaginative and uncultured,

I’m not going to start at the bottom and hope that things will get better.

I don't take this personally. If you like it I love it. Do you. But I think it is ok to also say that the tone comes off pretty poorly and seems misguided. Unimaginative? unculutured? starting at the bottom? Lowering your standards? Is it that serious?

[Ted]

Can you believe I had to google Champs?? LOL But I will go there in a heartbeat! That place made for good after-work fun

[Ms. Smart]

Yes. She's dead serious. She wasn't politically correct but she has a right to her point. I think the words she uses let's us know just how firm she is in her perceptions based on her experiences. Her standards are just that. I don't think she's destined to be alone because of them. I'm not mad at her either. Hell, I'ont like men who don't read and are proud of that shyt. I think people would have been less tender if she'd used any example that could be tied to something other than class and money. Naw, I'ont have an example right now. :-)

[WuDaMan]

Right don't sell them chains short. Long story short people go do cheap stuff sometimes to help remind them of something. There may be sentimental value to a place that you can go to that's the same no matter your actual location. Like in the movie Around the Bend. I think Christopher Walken said it on his Wikipedia page, "It's good to defy expectations." Shoot I could go anywhere and check out the menu order off the menu and make everybody go when did they get so good.

[WuDaMan]

Hold up hold betta te! Did she just say there's an olive branch? Let me wipe the earth from my head from bowing so low that my extension of an ending to this bickering and she put's a battle ax in me... She is the reason Jim Jones got a record deal.

[Ms. Smart]

Aw hell! There are many things I'll stand for but being held responsible for Jim Jones aint one of em!

[Ms. Smart]

Also, I think were are a great example of people who don't agree, bicker til the death, then start all over the next day cus it aint that serious. Yeah I got your FB message :-)

[WuDaMan]

Yeah you have a point. I knew a couple w/ matching burial plots they were registered democrats and republicans both carried guns but there were no bullet holes in the house. I think they are the reason I value high quality cussing.

Oh I get it the ax handle is made of olive branch. Lol You old softy.

[Anna N.]

That reminds me, I need to slap the Muffin Man for all the pounds he's put on me through the years. I dang near went into withdrawal when they closed a few months for remodeling.

I can see both sides of the argument. Can't nobody tell you who/what to like, but at the same time you have to accept that you have narrowed the fug out of your dating pool if you're gonna hang your hat on "stuff". Everyone has their own definition of what is trivial.

That said, that whole restaurant thing falls into my definition of trivial. Listening to your elders (especially married folk) can't hurt - and if they ALL tell you you're being a bit trifling why not hear them out? Shoot - someone sounded a little salty because the women mentioned their "marriage credentials" in their advice. Color me confused because I stopped listening to the "perpetually single and fabulous" years ago.

[L.P.]

Exactly.

And why is it associated with "bouge" though? My little Vietnamese joint by my office is cheaper than Oceanaire, but I'll be damned if I don't love that joint with all my heart. :)...

It's not about "bouge" or class in my opinion but rather what you are used to and what you expect. I like good food, I like good food that is "exotic"(in American terms, because to me meatloaf is "exotic")... I like good food that becomes an experience. Chili's does not provide me with that. And it's not out of "bougieness"... It's more of a "I'd rather eat a shawarma at House of Kabob at $4.50 a pop" than the 3-apperizers combo du jour at Chili's (I really loathe Chili's. :))

So if creativity is her non-negotiable, she is entitled to that... at the very least.

[Ms. Smart]

I think a lot the problem comes when the single person is getting advice from people she doesn't think are like her and/or who are with men that are not the type of men the single woman wants. It would be kinda like me pish-poshing advice from someone who rides a bike when my bike is a mountain bike and their bike is a messenger bike. Both bikes but there are nuances that are particular to each type of bike. Both people can end up coming off as condescending when really, they're just passionate about their views.

[L.P.]

The Palm is actually a chain restaurant, so it wouldn't fit into her list of preferred restaurant either... :)

[L.P.]

The thing is I live in Houston and I still am not a big fan of chain restaurants... It's about preferences. Chain restaurant food to me is bland and has no personality. There are a million and a half nice/cheap food in and around Houston where one can get a decent meal that is not from a chain restaurant...

I think a lot of things get lost in translation in this scenario. The author personally doesn't like the apparent lack of creativity being shown when a first date is done at a "chain restaurant"... For her, the first date should be more involved, it should show more commitment from the suitor. And I totally understand that logic because it showcases that she knows what she wants. Now what she wants may not be what someone else wants, and that's okay too.

I'm meh on both positions because I would rather not go eat at all on the first date... While I've had my share of first dates at chain restaurants (I understand the desire for "neutrality"), I've also had interesting first dates: the gun range (hey I live in Houston. Lol),the Miller Outdoor theater, museum, bus hopping into old Houston (downtown), etc... A first date gives you an idea of who the person is... and the author just doesn't want a "chain restaurant eatin" man... It's her prerogative and she's allowed to have one.

[L.P.]

There may be sentimental value to a place that you can go to that's the same no matter your actual location.

See I personally don't know if that's a quality I find attractive... but that's just me though... I'm an Anthony Bourdain kinda chick. *shrugs*

[L.P.]

Great analogy.

While I understand what people are trying to say (when I read it yesterday there were only about 5 or 6 comments) about what should "matter", the real question is what should "matter" to whom? If her "what matters" seems trivial to you, then it's because it is to you...

[Ms. Smart]

Io'ont have nothing to add but I felt bad cus I think I've responded to nearly every comment up until this point. :-)

[Ms. Smart]

Do you think there's something abt you that would alert a man to your preferences without there being a convo?

[WuDaMan]

I think that it's the obtuseness of the statement. It comes off like the guys who say I only date women who are of this ethnicity. Like she sees red @ the name of a chain restaurant. Yes it is a great thing that she knows what she likes and wants she should say so when they plan the date. Cuz how she know dude don't know the owner and got the back room for them. I think it's coming off as book cover judging is all.

[L.P.]

Most likely... Lol. I tend to be a bit offbeat... Then again, I need to have a convo with someone before going on a first date... and trust me, you'll know I'm offbeat if we talk. Lol. But I usually meet people who are either offbeat, or want to incorporate offbeat in their lives... And I really don't mind suggesting places to go to. :)

[L.P.]

And I can see how it can come off that way for sure...

Maybe I'm not too sure how first dates operate anymore... but I was under the impression that people exchanged first even if the contact is minimal? Or he should probably ask her? I don't know... again like I said, I will go to a chain restaurant if I have to (no Chili's though, eek) but if we can go to the small mom & pop next door that serves the same food as Chili's but BETTER tasting, then why not?

[Ms. Smart]

Here's the exchange that didn't happen but that people seemed to be reacting to:

Her: I don't want no uncultured hick. And I'm not lowering my standards to be married to a dumb hick like y'all did.
Other: U're dumb that's why you're single!

Not nary a thing above was said but I thnk it's how the totality of the exchanges were reacted to. All in all, I wanna thank TIH for introducing me to a new blog.

[WuDaMan]

Hold on though cuz the poutin @ burger king in Toronto is pretty aight. & if Sobarro makes their dough at the store. It may be worth a try because NYNY get's their water from the catskill mountain springs. & that can make the difference in the dough. But only you were there so only you know how she was actin.

[SheSavvy]

I'm loving all the comments that have spun off my my original post. Didn't realize it would case such controversy.

LOL at "Maybe she would have done better to say that she can't deal with a dude who has never left PG county."

I grew up in PG (ahem I mean Prince George's County) and don't date a man from PG who never left. Again, it's just my preference but as always there are exceptions to the rule.

[SheSavvy]

"I see everyone's points and the logic in all of them. As someone said, some folks can "bouge themselves off the market" very quickly by adamantly refusing to ever eat anywhere non-fancy simply because it’s a chain. I agree completely. But I also agree with the author that if you value a creative, thoughtful mind, jalapeno poppers at Chili's is a major fail."

Ted, thanks for getting where I was coming from. Wasn't meant to be a personal insult against anyone.

[TravelDiva]

I haven't dated since like, what, the 80's - DAMN! I guess I should have kicked The FireMarshall to the friggin curb for sharing a MRE (Meal Ready to Eat) for our "first date"...however, it was pretty creative...we were on the 9mm range, eating out a a bag...yeah - creative.

I find this whole discussion amusing. If a man making a poor suggestion for a first date is a "standard" for making a future date choice - Good luck.

*Shrugs*

Oh, at let me throw this in there...just because I frequently ride the express bus to hell...I've been married for 23 years. *sticks tounge out* So there! LOL.

[Ms. Smart]

*sigh* Why are you this way? You stay fancy and causing trouble. :-)

[akilah]

I didn't take your comment as being on a high horse but then again I've kinda been on the sideline (stalking) reading about your beautiful union blossom so I see nothing but goodness and light coming from you :)

Congrats again!

[Ms. Smart]

Don't be telling TIH she's goodness and light! She is evil! Plastering her pretty hair flowers all on her blog for the world to see! Humh! I think she's just bragging. OK, not really but u see how I took her happy moment and tried to make it bout ME?! LOL

[WuDaMan]

Meh locking yourself into a class of unbeaten path is also a version of obtuseness discrimination weeding out. Even if you are down for what ever you are then not down for nothing. If that makes sense. You know It's like that old skit Dave Chapelle made for the pische on you video by arugh kelly, "haters want to hate, lover's want to love." How bad do you want to be is the real question?

[Tiffany In Houston]

Slayed in the spirit at TravelDiva!!! Bwahahahaha!!!!

[Tiffany In Houston]

I feel you, SoJo..I feel you..Duly noted.

[Tiffany In Houston]

@LP: Send me a note so that we can go to lunch after I get done with all the weddingness type stuff. I like a woman that likes good food!

[CreoleInDC]

HIT.DOGS.HOLLER!

[Jameil]

"I think people personalized it and felt she bashed their men who eat at chains." Nail. on. head.

[Smokie]

What can I say that hasn't already been said?

If this is the writer's preference, so be it. It sure makes interesting reading. Only she has to live with her choices. It seems a little odd to dismiss a man because he takes you to the Olive Garden on the first date, but the writer doesn't seem too pressed to re-think things. Do you girl. I don't like short men or overly expressive men; everyone has her own deal breakers.

And I couldn't leave this part out, expecially since a few ppl complained about these kind of comments:

I'm married...to a man who loves chain restaurants. I frown at his suggestions to go to places that serve chicken tenders and such, and he frowns at all of the "froo froo" food that I love. And we have a great time doing just that - because we simply love being together, chain restaurants and all. :-)