Responsibilities

Yesterday Ames was the first to mention how men try to get their first wife back after divorce. If this is true, I think it's only true to the extent that she was his first love. Barring that, men try to keep tabs on and get with their first love. And I think all of this cuts along age and 'quality of man' lines. 'Quality' as in how he sees his role in the family (head of household), not in whether or not he is a 'good' person. 

Because younger generation, mine included, are mostly of the belief that if the marriage fails, it's both parties fault, men often don't feel the same sense of failure that previous generations felt. This is particularly true of men who aren't HOH types. The ones who expect their wives to be roommates who have sex with them and raise their kids. they don't know to or want to take on the responsibility of the marriage. They believe in the 50-50--even when they are really only giving 30%.

I used to buy into the 50-50 split when it came to ending a marriage. I don't anymore. I'm giving the man at least 51%--more depending on the type of man he is. In an overwhelming majority of couples, it's the man who proposes. That's giving him extra responsibility right there because, with the exception of the rare shotgun wedding, men aren't forced to ask of marry women. If a man is the HOH or expects deference from his wife and kids even as just a title holder (not a work doer), isn't he the one who should be responsible for making sure the marriage stays intact?

Comments

[Ames]

I think HOH means he takes it as his responsibility to repair and keep the marriage tuned up.

Leaders lead, so HOH needs to lead the couple out of problems.

[Ms. Smart]

Hence him being the one to shoulder most of the blame.

[KaNisa]

You know, I always assumed the male should lead the relationship, or especially a marriage, but I never thought of it like that...his job to lead the couple/family out of problems, or having to shoulder most of the blame...

[Ames]

I think there is some truth to the first love thing. I have known old men to dig up their teenage love when their wife dies.

I have heard at least 2 30-something men express regrets about their true love after they had given up on finding true love again and proposed to the woman they were with.

[KWoww]

i disagree with the notion of a HOH being defined as the one who shoulders more responsibility in a marriage. the HOH is the man, who makes the ultimate decision for his family with the input and assistance of his wife. she assists by providing input, information, and wisdom and the man implements the final decision reached by a collaborative means.

even in that respect, the responsibility of the outcome of that decision is evenly distributed. there are times in a marriage where one partner will have to be stronger than the other or shoulder more of the weight of the household than the other (in times of illness, literal absence due to travel, or mental exhaustion). and rightfully so! i hate this notion of "YOU OWE ME" or "WELL I DESERVE TO ACT LIKE AN ASS CUZ I'VE BEEN DOIN ALL THE WORK" attitude that so many married folk demonstrate. it's so immature and selfish and they shouldn't be married in the first place.

[Mikey]

I think men take more responsibility for their marriages now than in past generations. Back then women had very few options socially, legally, and religiously when it came to divorce. Men had all the power when it came to marriage. He could do what the hell he wanted and she couldn't leave. Unless she wanted to be looked down upon. Men now a days are at least expected to be faithful, expected to be partners and not oppressors, expected to compromise and discuss things with their wives. Not so in the past.

Every divorce is different. Just because you are head of the household doesn't mean you have a magic wand to make all the problems disappear. No matter how hard you try it sometimes falls apart. At the end of the day no matter what, it took two to get married and two to get divorced. The blame is always 50/50.

50% is far more than the effort than men used to put in.

[KWoww]

if a marriage fails, it's the fault of both parties. either someone's needs weren't communicated well enough or they didn't see the signs that their mate was a bad communicator before they were married. or the other person is not open to accepting criticism and open or able to serve his/her spouse until their needs are met.

[KaNisa]

I suppose I'm in the 50/50 crowd as a youngin...and that's what I truly strive towards...though sometimes it might be more than 50, but that's just my personality with everything.

My line name is Carpe Diem, though it doesn't seem like I'm the most active person in real life with my reserved natuare with people I don't know. I like to think I'm more strategic with it.

In relationships, I'm EXTREMELY active and not passive in any way...and usually tend to date more passive dudes. It's fustrating sometimes, but also a dynamic that teaches me a lot and makes me grow (or scale back).

My idea of a dude/husband leading isn't so much you're responsible for this family/relationship and it's your responsibility to make it work, but more if I can't do something, I know you'll be able to pick up the slack. Or even...he has more knowledge/experience in the things that matter due to a lifestyle that has been to it and through it.

I've lived a privleged/sheltered life. The people I date haven't had my experience. If things get rougher than what I'm used to, I know he'd know how to pull us through based on his history/past.

[Ames]

I don't believe the oppressive image of marriage, with the husband as a controlling authoritarian was ever the norm. I think it was a tool of women's lib.

My grandparents would tell me about the marriage of their parents and grandparents and the husbands were kind and good. My great grandfather moved his family to Pasadena from Oklahoma. He had a bricklaying business, brick home, high income and was not under a white man's thumb. My great-grandmother missed her own mother and wanted to go back to OK. He moved the family back to OK and dealt with Jim Crow to have a happy wife. He didn't have any outside children, cheat or beat her. He was an active hands on father

I have countless family stories of husbands and fathers that were intent on making their wife and sometimes mother happy. These make me disbelieve the myth of oppressive HOH.

Even a reading of the super old book called the Bible has stories of wives who were loved and adored by HOH.

I do think marriage with kids is a lot of work on both husbands and wives. I think the difference is women tell the story and men suck it up and move forward.

[Ames]

I'm not taking 50/50 unless I am in a relationship with a woman. I think men need to figure out what MAN means.

I can't stand weak arse, refusing to accept the responsibility and burdens but wanting the benefits of manhood males. Of course women keep procreating with them so I guess that weak arse seed will prevail. No offense to women who love weak men and who shoulder 50% or more of the burden and work and pay the bills too.

I need to figure out why some women get husbands. Is regular chex that vital?

[Ms. Smart]

Hey Mikey!  Wussup?  Wussup?  And welcome.  Make yourself at home, but keep your feet off of my coffee table and couch. :-)  I'm not sure who these monster men are you're talking about.  I'm sure they exist.  But I don't know any.  I was really raised around any.  Sure it happens, but it also happens where men just take care of home respectfully.  They are happy to provide for their families and be a good example to their children.  But for those men, I think part of their definition of manhood includes being able to have the HOH title, do the job and not abuse the power.

[Ms. Smart]

When a company goes belly up, the CEO gets fired.  If a man wants the figurative corner office, they he needs to be ready to take the praise for success and the criticism for failure.  As for your point about who owes what, I think this is where a lot of women shoot themselves in the foot.  They strap on a cape and expect nothing in return.  So what they get in return is over-worked and under-appreciated.  If I take on my role in the household, and you take yours, I owe it to YOU to hold up my end of the bargain and YOU owe it to me to hold up yours.  Ain't nothing in life really free.  Everyone contribute in some way.  for my contribution I expect X,Y, Z <--We as a couple can agree  on what those are.

[Ms. Smart]

As I said in another comment, folks (i.e. men) want the corner office and can only believe that it means easy living.  No--it means hard work.  If you want that fancy corner office, but the company fails, you weren't doing YOUR job.

[Ms. Smart]

I am not for 50-50 simply because it hardly ever really works out that way.  What are we going to do, write down all the chores and bills and split em 50-50?  Naw.  Won't ever be even.  But if we can agree on which areas we excel in and each person heads up those areas, I'm good.  Keep in mind, I was raised in a traditional household.  My mother's JOB, her contribution to the family, was running the house.  My father's (and later step-father) job was to provide for us.  While he was providing. she was making sure he and our house stayed healthy and shyt.  She actually did such a good job of reliving my step-father of the burden of tasks that once we went out of town without him and he was SHOOK. 

[Ms. Smart]

YES!  the rub is that a lot of women are not their husband's LOVE and vice versa.

[Ms. Smart]

Dear Ames,

Please get out of my head!

[Ms. Smart]

Let's be real, if you're that type of man, it's best you get with a woman who is 50-50.  It's the smart thing to do.  This way, you don't really have to burden yourself with too much and you still probably get a certain level of deference from her.

[KaNisa]

I guess I'm confused about why a dude should be shouldered with more...especially these days when both partners work.

Like I make more than my dude and have a more demanding job. If things progress, I will probably cook regularly and at least delegate things to do around the house.

Also not particularly religious.

So in terms of "doing more" what exactly is he supposed to be doing more than I would?

Maybe I'm a bit defensive when it comes to gender roles though. My mom was more educated than my father, but decided to be a stay at home Mom after my next oldest sister was born.

Daddy brought in more than enough money for all 5 of us (5 in the fam), and we never wanted for anything, but he also was the "it's my money" type and talked down to my mother a lot. (More backstory on why I'm averse to relying on dudes for anything.)

I guess 50-50 for me is not so much sharing 50% of burdens, but having more like a yin-yang kind of relationship with bigger "similarity" circles. At our core, we're similar, but we also have fundamental differences/strengths/weaknesses that play off each other...partnership more than hierarchy.

[BlkBond]

Yes, and as a result you have sub-par treatment and behavior taking place in marriages that should not have been sanctioned to begin with.

I always urge men to be true to themselves: if you are with a woman for 10 years and don't want her with the urgency of air, do NOT marry her. If you are with a woman for 1 month and want her with all of your heart, then just do it. Women can tell and you can save yourself some heartache, time, money, and unwanted offsprings.

Bond.

[WuDaMan]

You know good and well pointing fingers ain't gone solve a dog on thing when it comes to the still ultimate end of a split. So why you tryin to play him like it's a one size fit all Miss Celie? You knowed them britches was gone fall off some of them rail of a man and split just like the good Lord did some of them Mammie shapes. I think of it like this. Husband and Wife is not something you do as much as it is something you are. & should you decide to not be that anymore you are the one who stopped being a Spouse. Thing is people get spoiled and start saying Hey he ain't or she ain't spousy enough or the way I like it when I like it and get to finger pointing. It's one thing to love it's another to commit to love.

[onefromphilly]

WOW...what Wu said!

Ain't no such thing as 50/50. It's either 100/100 or the relationship will faulter. You can not go in thinking I'll just do my half and spouse will do their half. NOPE. Both of you have to do your ALL!!! The family is a unit and the two are the partners 100% all in or fail.

[Mikey]

The oppressive reality was just that. It's wasn't an image. You didn't see it, it wasn't even spoken about. But most men in the past were shaped that way by society and religion. A man's responsibility was to provide and lead. Marriages were happy, but that's because roles were defined and closely followed. If a man provided, protected, and didn't beat you... who cared if he had a mistress or two. Not the law or religion. What could a woman do? Divorce and try to fend for herself and her children. Mind you her prospects for a man or work at this point was nearly zero. So women stayed, made due and kept a smile on their faces. Marriages lasted because they had too. Even the happy ones. I promise men back then were like men now. Women on the other hand are very well of now. So I don't agree that men of this generation don't know what it is to be a HOH. Society has changed where women now equally share the role and responsibility.

Like most relationships, they are always good from the outside looking in. But god knows what happens behind those lace curtains.

[Mikey]

50/50 or 100/100... It all equals 1.

[SoJo]

Ummm...while I'm reading this...an ad full of scantily clad wommens is displayed on the left side of my screen for "www.afrointroductions.com". LOL!!

*going back to finish reading*

[Ms. Smart]

Go click on it so I can get me some Google Ads monies!